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18 MARCH 2009 MEETING: BC PLACER MINING ASSOCIATIONS AND REPRESENTATIVES OF MINISTRY OF ENERGY, MINES AND PETROLEUM RESOURCES @ THOMPSON RIVER CONFERENCE CENTRE, KAMLOOPS, BC
In Attendance: Placer Mining Representatives: Jim Gibson, President, Cariboo Mining Association Merv Lewis, Vernon Placer Miners’ Association Bruce Chaytor, President, BC Placer Miners Association Cal Olsson, Vernon Placer Miners Association Peter Dergousoff, West Kootenay Placer Miners Randy Miller, President, Atlin Placer Association John Zogas, Vice-President, Atlin Placer Association Les Sleeva, Observer, Large-Scale Placer, Cariboo District Ray Marks, Ray Marks Mining, Omineca District Harry Gerink, Ray Marks Mining, Omineca District
Ministry of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, Victoria, B.C. Butch Morningstar, Executive Regional Director, Mining and Minerals Division Rick Conte, Executive Director, Mineral Titles Branch Norman Marcy, Director, Land Use Coordination Branch Sara Dickinson, Land Use Coordination Branch Don Smith, Mineral Title Inspector, Mineral Titles Branch, Kamloops, B.C. Joe Seguin, Regional Director, Mining and Minerals Division, Kamloops, B.C.
ROUND II: BUTCH MORNINGSTAR (CHAIR)
Opening comments by Butch Morningstar
Merv (Vernon): …review Ministry position on representation for benefit of new faces?
Butch: I’d like to add to agenda (1) First Nations Act: insert after 4th item (2) speak to unified voices as follow-up to last meeting. Butch: Anything else? Cariboo: Norm Marcy will join us for ½ an hour this afternoon. He has been dealing with Mountain Caribou issues. Jim (Cariboo): …permitting issues out of Prince George office…no permits issued yet… Butch: …specific to your association. Jim (Caribou): …specific to whole area…all permitting Butch: We’ll add it to Other Issues.
Butch: …one voice to placer industry (following Minister’s comment)…There always is differences of opinion within organization. If you are going to take action on something, you need to be able to say these are the things we are going to work on and speak with one voice…One of the discussions I’ve been involved with…there might be different things we need to work on (depending on scale of operation). As an industry, you need to figure out what we need to work on collectively…It’s impossible to talk to (different people) if the (needs) are exact opposite…I need to have (an idea) of what this looks like…there are different issues (between hand-panning, large-scale, etc)… (suggest) government guys leave about 11:30 and leave half an hour for placer miners to discuss issues…
Butch: Re: minutes (of last meeting)…summary of some of the things talked about…work plan items…just want to take time to report out on some of the things that we talked about and promised from last time…We were asked to put together a one-pager that talked about royalty process and taxes and how that worked… (passing copies around)
Mining and Minerals: BC Placer Gold Mine Mineral Tax Obligations Butch: …a simply summary of issues…clarification of tax system, royalty system works… [distributed copies of one-page summary to all present]
Mining and Minerals: Resource Roads Act Butch: …is not on…there’s a couple of things going on…One, Oil and Gas Activities Act will be tied to it…safety issues on forestry roads e.g. speed limit Jim (Caribou): [missed] Butch: …status quo… Jim (Caribou): existing roads…e.g. a guy with a placer operation…only needs road to standard to get in and out…but told he has to look after 7 kilometers of road…road 30, 40, 50 years… Jim (Caribou): We don’t need Industrial road status…only access to claims. We need a trail to get in and out of… Butch: …if this is a block…maybe we need to work on this as a group…might be relevant to small, medium, large operators…may be an issue for types of operations your organization deals with…let’s work on that…that’s what we’re here for…I hear you loud and clear…
Butch: Questions re: Act…this comes down to what you’re supposed to do…If you’re using a road, you’re supposed to get a permit…For many years that hasn’t happened. There have been some issues in some places and, Jim, if we need to work on that…sounds like we do…
Placer: …forestry comes in when they do a cut block and they take that road out…be nice to find another way into area after they’re finished…I don’t know if that is in Road Act. Butch: It’s all about authorities, permissions, who are responsible for what…government used to look after these roads… Placer: forestry used to…get a cut on stumpage… Butch:…as resources start to dwindle government moved out of looking after roads…companies more concerned about liability and cost…more and more of an issue for folks doing back-country tourism…e.g. taking people to mountains…If we’re going to make headway, we have to put our heads together Merv (Vernon): When current government came to power, this is just a note, did they not come in with Ministry of Deregulation? Butch: Yup… Merv (Vernon): What’s happened to that? Butch:…the results are…the discussion around that whole piece is for politicians…reduced amount of regulations by one-third…total amount of regulation is now one-third less than 2001…requirement for (no?) increase in regulation…that’s still in place… Bruce (VI): …Jim’s concern…seems to me that Forestry has industrial level…we need exemption for my access…depending on type of vehicle and what you’re going to be hauling…ore…incidental crossing. I think there should be an exemption… Butch: for next meeting, I’ll bring some people to speak to that issue…I can make that issue… Cariboo: …definition of small and large scale Butch: no definition…that’s a discussion for you guys… Cariboo: I keep hearing that… Butch: I hear differences of opinion in industry folks…you need to have that discussion…you guys aren’t unique…every organization has that…we all have to figure it out… Ray (Placer): …computerized…used to go to Ministry of Mines…pay annual fees, etc…now computerized…I’ll live with that…Ministry of Mines rude…Prince George understaffed…I’m OK with it, but I need help…I need to hire someone…. Butch: We can get you looked after…front office…pay $10 and they’ll build maps…another inspector…staffing up… Cariboo: Prince George really short-handed. Butch: We’re working on it… Cariboo: …reason why permits not being sent out? Butch: …can’t say. Placer: Rose (at coast?) really good…Christie really good…really helpful. Rick C: Those are my folks…Vancouver office: I apologize if they’re rude…I will deal with the issue… Ray (Placer): We spend money…this is what it’s all about…we’re not here to screw up environment…all we need…we’ve spent hours trying to get people…work us through…permit rejected…I don’t mind paying for…hope I’m not being… Bruce (VI): …meeting in Quesnel…75 people…2 had computer abilities… Cariboo: Not even 10% understand computer… Ray (Placer): …understand rock and dirt and machinery…computers out of our league…problem with filings on computer… Rick C: (There are ) private folks around province that do work for people…one in Quesnel…Fran…a fellow in Smithers…Lorne Warren’s son… Cariboo: …lady in Prince George…another lady in Likely…Practical? Butch: Many of mineral exploration groups…Smithers…Kamloops…generally produced booklets of suppliers…usually reference some of those folks…e.g. Smithers…all of the suppliers to industry…if you have something specific…we’ll make sure you get (help) Ray (Placer): We’d appreciate it. Butch: We’ll make sure that happens…worrisome that staff is being rude… Ray (Placer): I think the reason that she is is that she’s short-staffed in that office…onslaught of people from downtown demanding paperwork…We’re legitimate people putting money into economy…tied into Quebec…say BC is one of toughest areas to mine in…I’m sure you know that…placer miners…big ones, small ones…it’s a tough call from your point of view… Butch: We’ll be productive in this group if we can outline a number of things that we can collectively work on…We need to tackle a few things and say: Here are some barriers to the industry… Cal (Vernon): …training problem… Cariboo: There used to be lots of money for training. Rick C: …used to do training around province…fiscal year started April 1st…starting this year with ‘zero’ budget… Bruce (VI): …resistance to electronic…suggest a list of agents and post on our website… Other downside on using agent is if agent screws up you screw up…if someone else does it wrong… Ray (Placer): The way I see mining…making big mines become self-governing…taking away government staff… Butch: We’ve almost doubled regional operation staff in last 2 years…almost back to 2000-2001 levels…reference Smithers office (worked there): in late 90,, 13 people, now 10 or 11…pretty close to same…(What has) changed is complexity of going through permit processes…1st nations discussion…communities, environment…takes a lot of time…don’t get away with what we used to… Cariboo: Smithers has 10 or 11…put out 17 or 18…Pr George 8 people…170 odd placer…re: placer permits Butch: Prince George puts out most placer in province… Cariboo: 20-30% more people in Smithers office than Prince George. Butch: Will have more people…new inspector in Prince George... Rick C: From my perspective…no separation between small or large…160(?) telephone calls and emails a day…everybody gets short shrift…
Butch: Let’s get back to …. Merv (Vernon): A lot of things I’m hearing are area-specific items…expedite these things by getting material into one basket…not dealing with at this level…should be dealt with at next level up… Bruce (VI): …still staffing… Butch: don’t want to … frustration level about permits…the government on behalf of people of BC wants to see good economic activity…there’s a whole litany of things, whether they’re small or big…at some point, we need to figure out what we can actually work on…if road access is one of them, if bonds are one of them, let’s deal with that…there’s only so much we can do…we can’t do everything all today…So, what is it we’re going to do? Merv (Vernon): First Nations issue… Cariboo: Yeah, maybe that’s the hang-up…
Butch: OK…is something I can take back to my office and get some clarification…is it something we can work on within ministry or collectively or does it require major changes in government policy? So, three things there…the list of agenda…things we can go away and make some headway…the next ones: ministry work plans…discussion around broader policy…take some work…if they’re the wrong ones, let’s change them to right ones…Sometimes if you push into an area, (the result) might not be what you want Bruce (VI): …the unintended consequence… Butch: Let’s focus on things on which we can get results…let’s try to get something out of it.
Mining and Minerals: Dredge Placer Mining Butch: Dennis… Bruce (VI): …the process on that…because it’s federally controlled, …meeting with the Feds a couple of years ago found their mitigation…framework they use…breaking down different aspects of mining…what…answer their questions… Butch: Is it a Best Practices thing? Bruce (VI): It’ll come down to Best Practices. Butch: What happens next? Bruce (VI): …Feds…work in progress… Butch: Have they indicated that that will do what they need? Bruce (VI): …plan is to get it as approved procedure…proceeding slowly…it is still proceeding… Cal (Vernon): There is a problem…for a small-scale guy…a new technology…a suction dredge…never been really addressed…thinking of it as large scale, like bucket scale dredges from old…suction dredge probably most environmentally friendly way to mine, small scale, yet no…you drop through cracks…don’t fit in whole scheme…how it’s regulated…for ordinary guy, recreational…don’t fit in anywhere, don’t let you use new equipment… Bruce (VI): (The) problem comes down to the Water Act…Sand and gravel considered deleterious substances. Cal (Vernon): That’s crazy, Bruce. Bruce (VI): Well, it’s federal…sand…the fact that it’s just being moved…have to be able to get them to listen… Cal (Vernon): … Butch: Vancouver Island folks working on it…Is there an avenue for others to feed into it? Bruce (VI): (It’s) time-consuming…going through block after block itemizing all risk potential. Butch: So, you want a draft together… Peter (Kootenay): What kinds of science are they using? Bruce (VI): There is no science. Peter (Kootenay): I know we got a permit on the Pend D’Oreille…In fact, found enhanced stream… Bruce (VI): US Corp study…show no permanent effects…site-specific…temporary…etc…but Feds say if we don’t do study it doesn’t count… Placer: …. Butch: I think we need to get to a place where… Bruce (VI): Yes, where we can present it to you… Butch: Yes, then present to other groups… Bruce (VI): ….ex-police officer…demanding permit…according to all studies…no problem…demanding permit within 30 days…any approach by officers will be considered harassment…(LAUGHS ALL AROUND) Placer: (There) should be a cut-off …over 5” is commercial… Bruce (VI): Provincial government…not allowed to issue permits…federal jurisdiction Cal (Vernon): …don’t need permits, have licence for small scale recreational type prospecting like fishers etc have… Peter De gousoff .. good idea…. Butch: All those things need to feed into work Bruce (is) doing with Feds…get to a principal place, then include others in the conversation… Joe Seguin: We do include approval for “sniping”…following guidelines from DFO and Environment… Cal (Vernon): …underwater camera photos of deposit…trying to prevent you from doing Joe Seguin: (The) idea (is) to make sure you are doing bedrock cracks. Cal (Vernon): (The) bottom of the streambed is changing all (the) time…tomorrow (it might be) covered with gravel. Bruce (VI): …number for overburden allowed… Joe Seguin: No, it’s a crack…pry bars… Cal (Vernon): You know what happens,…a guy gets a claim using fm licence…looks at prospecting on it, bogged down ;(it) gets confusing…well you can do this…little bit of sniping…etc…so guy turns into claim flipper…or gives up on it, there’s no fun anymore going out and doing it… Bruce (VI): Cal, that’s where Best Practices is going…to itemize what you can do and what the parameters are…
Mining and Minerals: Shared C&E On Placer Sites Butch: (I’m) cognizant of time…working with some of the other agencies (Environment, Forestry) to share some of these things…one of the things we’ll put on: where Mine Manager provides permission…get some other agencies to help…tourists showing up on claims… Merv (Vernon): …wasn’t just a C&E issue, it was Vernon… Butch: Compliance and Enforcement…so if you called and said we got problems with people showing up on holidays…we can send other agencies…we collectively in Ministry of Mines…We don’t want Conservation Officers going out to inspect…it’s a place where we can provide some help…there’s a lot of work to do on that… [Missed some discussion between Bruce and Cal] Butch: Lets’ deal with this as a group. Merv (Vernon): we’re hearing of a lot of individual area issues that we as an organization should be meeting about on our own and dealing with on our own so that when we meet with the Ministry we can have set issues to bring forward that are reasonable in size that we can deal with in one-day sessions…we’ll hear all over the table…all important issues, to that group, but we need to…ministry doesn’t want to deal with individual groups…we need to find a way to bring our issues forward… Cal (Vernon): …can’t do anything but suggest because we’re not in regulations. Merv (Vernon): I hope to think that Ministry (is) just as willing to listen to us as we are to them. Butch: We are…
Mineral Titles: List of Contacts for Economic Study from MTO Butch: Rick… Rick C: First, Bill Phelan sends regards…announced retirement November 27th(?)…replacement…don’t know yet…who will be handling Chief Gold Commissioner duties… Rick C: Next item: List of contacts (for economic study from MTO)…Minister suggested that placer should be included in economic reporting…what money, how many titles,…one thing we looked into (was) getting a list of placer tenure holders…freedom of information says no…so we can’t send this…other stats let me know because we can generate that stuff. If you can tell me what you think you need, we can go back and forth until we get it right… Merv (Vernon): …phone…lst meeting…all MEM websites…inclusion added to that if individual miners are accessing those sites…info package of this organization’s existence… Rick C: (I) missed some of the discussion…served subpoena… Merv (Vernon): I think I remember Mr. Hogg saying… Rick C: We can add placer to ministry website…we can add information that would be valuable to folks… Merv (Vernon): …so an individual tenure holder knows that we’re out here, then they can contact us… Rick C: …putting placer information on website…we can do it…other issue…sending email to all placer holders…sending email to everyone saying you should join local placer… Merv (Vernon): Some don’t have email addresses…have to access ministry forms…add to bottom of form… Rick C: We can put that on Branch website… Merv (Vernon): …Notice of Work…
Bruce (VI): spent considerable time on it…Randy (Atlin)… Randy (Atlin): Yes, 3 or 4 years ago…he contacted me after this meeting…brought it up with Mr. Hogg and implied that we’d do it again…getting it together and contact at later date… Butch: Who from this group would work on that…I’ll put my hand up…we’ll figure out what we need to do….develop framework… Bruce (VI): …have done an honest study…etc Rick C: I don’t think Ministry doesn’t know what people are producing… Bruce (VI): Yes, put on blinders to come up with answers…we’ve already got format…whether we need layers in format…whether economist happy with it…need to finish what we started and grow on it…several months work on it… Butch: … Bruce (VI): …sitting on info… Randy (Atlin): …implied we’re spot on the wall…works for government…need to proceed with it…assume Hogg or yourself contacted him…etc…the 4th time they’ve come to us…we gather stats and put them in and away they go and it amounts to nothing…we’re tired of it…Anderson should have them…we can only say it’s gone higher…fuel costs, maintenance… Butch: I don’t know all details…how we got where we were…not all of placer numbers are reported…my understanding is that we were going…that…what are these numbers…not something we would do…something you guys would do… Bruce (VI): …
Rick: Freedom of Information…answer no Randy (Atlin): …met with Neufeld regarding that…Section…what’s his name? ,,,Fred Herman was the author of that thing…implied that there wasn’t enough money coming in from placer industry…thinking of handing it over to DFO… Rick C: …cost of operation vs revenue… Randy (Atlin): …and administration…we’ve always said we’re over-administered and over-regulated…
Bruce (VI): …presented structure to report…should be put in format…needs to be added to or modified… Randy (Atlin): …up to date… Rick C: Bruce, add my name to it as well… Butch: … Bruce (VI): …summoned to Roundup…Randy and I…3 weeks to have it done… Butch: Let’s get on it if we need to get on it… Randy (Atlin): That was impression I was getting…that placer was on the way out…
Butch: What was message from Minister last meeting? Randy (Atlin): …just a little background…he wants to have facts and figures right…prepared to stand up in legislature… Placer: always been popular misconception people taking money out of, gold out of forests…mining shrinking because cost exceeds revenues…always a shot at hitting something…always misconception that everyone getting rich… Cariboo: …loggers…trying to turn loggers and forest workers into placer miners…when he phoned…putting on course…didn’t know they aren’t on-ground staking…didn’t want to talk about it…haven’t heard anything more about it…pump money to put these guys to work… Merv (Vernon): …I’ve heard same ting if you don’t mind getting into it…It goes back to First Nations thing…trying to get out-of-work resource people, but no --- land available… Bruce (VI): That’s another topic… Butch: That’s one of the bigger topics…
Mineral Titles: Clarification of Land Owner Notification Rick C: This is on website…there’s a whack of information on the website…still difficulty trying to find out who owns …about 50% of private land in government database…government seems to rely on regional districts…some are good, some are non-existent…Okanagan is one… Bruce (VI): Vancouver Island… Rick C: Well, Vancouver Island is so screwed up with railway… Bruce (VI): …biggest problem…definition of any mining activity which seems to include walking across to crack rocks…I see that as detriment to industry…we need an exemption: non-invasive use of non-delineated property e.g. if there is no fence around it…on Vancouver Island, (it’s) impossible to find a property line…in that environment, it’s irrational… Rick C: …an exemption for non-surface disturbance other than breaking rocks… Bruce (VI): Yes, I think just to cross unfenced property should be an exemption… Cal (Vernon): Does that entail adding something to regulation…or do you rewrite regulation? Rick C: …best to rewrite regulation…then, it can be changed by next bureaucrat…(It’s) better to have regulation rewritten so it’s actually law. Butch: Let me get clarification… Bruce (VI): You can’t… Rick C: [missed some of this]…amendment Section 19 [quote] permission, with or without title…holders of land lease have right to restrict surface…any mining activity (defined as search for minerals)… Merv (Vernon): If you’ve got a gold pan and a shovel, you’re in trouble… Bruce (VI): If (there is) that exemption, rest of act quite livable… Rick C: That’s a tough political one…I’ll write that one up and send it up to new Minister in couple of months… Jim (Cariboo): New Minister? Rick C: There’s an election… Butch: …if, if, if…
Bruce (VI): Any success on 100 meter…? Rick C: No…that’s a reg change and nothing is going ahead until after the election. Jim (Cariboo): …legacy claim and nothing going on for 1000 yards(?)…Joe was saying to apply for higher yardage…if you define area you think you’ll mine… Bruce (VI): No, to apply for entire area of claim…when it goes out for referrals…apply for entire claim…designate… Ministry: …not entire claim…just where you will be advancing…talking about ‘disturbance area’ Jim (Cariboo): Apply for higher yardage…sent it back for 1000 yards… Ministry: That’s two issues…held it to 2000 cubic meters… Jim (Cariboo): …people told to convert to legacy claims…cut back from 2000 to 1000 meters…Minister Hogg did not think that was right… Merv (Vernon): …dealing with specific issues… Butch: No, that’s a big one… Jim (Cariboo): Got permission to 2000 yards on one cell… Butch: Do we have discretion on that? Comes in Notice of Work…does yardage come into Notice of Work? Ministry: It does…no discretion…under Rick’s legislation… Randy (Atlin): That’s a 1000 cubic meters in pay dirt… Jim (Cariboo): (It’s) taking so long to get leases converted over…people converting are being penalized. Ministry: …once to lease approval based on mine plan… Butch: …difference between legacy claim…2000 cubic meters on 50 hectares… Rick C: Now 1000 cubic meters per cell…cell is 21 hectares… Jim (Cariboo): It is…switched to cells. Can only do 1000 yards here…then you have to switch over…people are being penalized… Rick C: If it’s one-to-one …converted to much larger cell claim, really get nailed Butch: ….sounds like a mathematical thing… Rick C: …one of the unintended consequences…we need to change reg…need Minister’s approval… Placer: Will he be at next meeting? Jim (Cariboo): We have both NDP and other party informed. Merv (Vernon): What the hell are you guys smoking? Placer: Life or death situation for some of us…to convert… Butch: If we have to make regulatory change…what’s the best way to do it? Rick and I need to have a conversation first… Atlin: …stops production… Butch: Yes, I think I understand that…
BC Placer Miners Association: Best Practices Guide Bruce (VI): OK…overview… Best Practices for Placer…[reference to Information Letters from Ministry that outline Background Information Regarding the Completion of the Notice of Work and Reclamation Program: Placer Operations] …stuffed in drawer…gone back to Square One…in different letters (they) outline DFO, what they want, objectives, what you have to do to get exemption…really good material…about 20% through it…found that when he got to Sand and Gravel…fundamental errors in some of work…going line-by-line…way too technical…would bury most people to use to set up operation…based on memo of understanding between province and fed… Butch: If these are on website, maybe can send out as piece of information until you get something together… Joe Sequin: …Bruce Milligan…probably came from Ken MacDonald…would have been as handouts…not on web… Butch: I’ll follow-up with Bruce… Cal (Vernon): Wouldn’t that be a good idea to get those best practices for placer out there… Bruce (VI): …refer to it as guideline for approving permit…already approved in practice…will make things a lot smoother in implementing…
BC Placer Miners Association: Resource Roads Act Butch: Talked about Resource Roads Act earlier…(whether) we deal with it as bigger issue…want to follow up on that…Want to introduce discussion about First Nations at this point…I’ll say what I know about…more than happy to have whatever discussion…found out from Nanaimo Clipper [print media]..said First Nations summit had come to agreement with provincial government about memo of understanding…didn’t pay too much attention…heard through ministry counsel that there was quite a bit…summit and high-level folks and Premier’s office…How do we work together better? Intent to introduce piece of legislation something like First Nation Reconciliation Restoration…as with other things, significant concern…don’t know what’s in legislation…us being forestry, tourism, mining, industries of all sorts…First Nations communities had not been in on discussions…leadership had been on discussion…big phew-fo-rah…piece of legislation off table…not introduced before election…leg is off table…won’t happen until after election, if anything…can’t tell you a whole lot about it…don’t know much other than discussions I’ve had, other than folks…basically, what I understand…shared decision making…frankly, that’s not anything new…it’s a place that case law has been taking us…[missed this]…If we have to have another level of government to go to, that’s going to make it difficult…where case law has been taking us, every time we disagree about whether there’s title there or not, it takes 5 yrs to go through court…e.g. of areas affected…Haida Gwai, etc…some of intent of legislation isn’t any different than direction we’ve been going already…should there be more discussion about it before…good from my perspective…instead of discussion with 230 band offices and all overlapping, dealing with language groups…that’s as much as I know…not sent to me…conversations I’ve had Jim (Cariboo): Why can’t First Nations have one voice…same as permitting…(have to see) 8-13 First Nations…quit doing referral because it was… Butch: Agreement around that was meant to resolve that… Merv (Vernon): ….I thought last time…deal with First Nations…list of … Jim (Cariboo): I tried that…8 branches…Quesnel, Williams Lake,…have to go to 8 offices…you start adding them up… Merv (Vernon): We got to start them… Butch: It’s just as bad for them as it is for us… Jim (Cariboo): If I only had to deal with one or two… Placer: We’ve got an area in conflict already …between them…not us… Randy (Atlin): Do you know why it was taken off the table? Butch: Both on First Nations side and (other) stakeholders whom it would impact loudly said there has not been enough discussion…If you remember Resource Roads Act, how that played out, very similar… Randy (Atlin): Well, this just didn’t happen… Butch: …Mining Action Plan…came out of aboriginal conference in Prince George…had invited some people from outside First Nations…got together…with their understandings and beliefs to develop a Mining Action Plan…has their perspectives and beliefs…that doesn’t mean that we agree with it…doesn’t mean that we agree with it as a government…doesn’t mean there’s a connection between it and the legislation…the placer mining association can write an action plan for placer mining…[missed this]…it was not a foundation for that act… Bruce (VI): It does give an indication of where their heels are dug in… Butch: Don’t take this as an official thing…you have those perspectives and then government perspective and those sides try to come together…I haven’t seen the Act, but there has been really strong reaction to it… Cal (Vernon): …as a contact person…if you wanted to talk to them… Butch: There is a confidentiality…website called…GeoBC…wonderful place to get information about natural resources…land use…access to MTO, The Map Place…What we’re currently doing is trying to develop suite of database…anything you need to know that applies to mining will come out…if you want to know where all of mineral claims are in province, push a button… Cal (Vernon): First Nations… Butch: There is a button…but only certain people… Joe Seguin: …can get contacts at federal website… Cal (Vernon): Government of Canada? Merv (Vernon): Is that different tribes or different nations? Joe Seguin: …different bands… Jim (Cariboo): …had them give me a list of all the bands… Butch: Can go on to internet and look up claim…we want to get to a place where you can get all your information… Vernon: … Butch: …same thing… Cariboo: … Vernon: …simplify it… Butch: The thing that really kills most folks on that is overlap…whole lot easier with adjacent boundaries… Jim (Cariboo): We got Carrier, Shuswap and Chilcotin…they all live in… Placer: Where does that leave one-window approach?…a mines issue…ministry of mines would deal with… Butch: Requirement for consultation…responsibility is on government…constitution…cannot infringe on aboriginal title…however, First Nations wants to know what’s going on…if you as an operator have good relationship with First Nation, then our work goes much smoother…you don’t have to do it…I just encourage folks to have a good relationship…as Jim points out, there are more than one group that has rights and we have to consult with all, have to figure out balance: we have to figure out when we’ve done enough consultation…it’s hard to get….
Atlin: …this afternoon…ministry plans… Butch: Yes, this afternoon, let’s pick two or three things that we can actually do…figure out what we can move forward with…template for action plan…Rick’s here…we’ll put some teams together.. Merv (Vernon): Can we have this [template] for our internal discussion? Butch: Sure…it’s not a big deal…[description]. Merv (Vernon): Oh, you haven’t identified the issues yet… Jim (Cariboo): …issues…trying to make mining work in Caribou right now…
BREAK: Discussion about BC placer mining association structure in terms of representing placer mining issues to government
AFTERNOON SESSION: Butch: [Introduces Norman Macy and Sara Dickinson of Land Use Coordination Branch re: Mountain Caribou Habitat Areas]
Norman (Land Use): ...Mountain caribou issues…Context: In Mining Plan, responsible and access to land…two-zone…85% of province for mineral exploration…integrated land use…suite of activities across landscapes…solutions to satisfy more than one issue…
…threatened species…must have protected habitat (federal)…on provincial land…address habitat and recovery to effectively protect…bring in laws, regulations, permit conditions or contracts to control and manage habitat, species themselves and activities which conflict with species and their survival and recovery of populations…also in those strategies, include monitoring and penalties for non-compliance, one of federal requirements…no penalty regime built into what BC considering…if BC doesn’t act, Canada can act and impose measures…e.g. killer whales (orcas) recently…feds brought in rules…October 2007 cabinet made decision on mountain caribou recovery…timber harvesting, road building and winter recreations…mineral exploration activities have impact: includes timber cutting (reduces habitat), not as extensive as forestry; road building increases access for all users to caribou habitat, another focal point for measures being brought into place; actual mineral exploration can disturb or have an impact on habitat…providing guidance on how to deal with those things…Ministry of Environment has brought in GAR Orders; Prohibits road building in identified habitat…worked collaboratively with various agencies…create permit conditions in identified habitat zones for mineral exploration zones that permit is good to go…85% of work will be authorized by inspector with no requirement for review by Ministry of Environment…if not practical or better way, can apply for exemption from GAR Order that would be reviewed by regional manager for Ministry of Environment…if it makes sense, will say go ahead…drafted guidance to provide description for how to comply for permit descriptions e.g. use of helicopters, etc…distributed electronically…brought maps…review with inspectors (Prince George, Kamloops, ?)…overlap of less than 30…about 25 in caribou habitat zone as mapped…total area of habitat, mineral tenures probably covers about one-third, therefore, potential overlap of one-third…
Merv (Vernon): What form of mineral tenure? Norman (Land Use): Both… Randy (Atlin): Are First Nations exempt? Norman (Land Use): First Nations harvest continues unless (there is a) public health or safety need…if this exists, then rules can be applied… Randy (Atlin): Is government willing to step forward regarding conservation? Norman (Land Use): Yes… Randy (Atlin): In our area, biggest hunters are First Nations… Norman (Land Use): In Atlin area, not a conservation concern… Randy (Atlin): If First Nations (are) hunting them, then allowed…? Norman (Land Use): (There is) not much First Nations harvesting pressure. Ray (Omineca): Do you have pictures of them? Norman (Land Use): Yes, I do…(they are) not genetically different than any other caribou in forest, but live in forest areas and eat lichens off trees…in north, more robust populations…in south, less than 20… Randy (Atlin): …bring it up…rules and regs we have to stick with…but people are driving down the road with them on the roof… Bruce (VI): … Sara (Land Use): Mountain caribou at winter snowline or above…adapted to mountains in winter…move down in summer…calve at snowline in early spring…most vulnerable (then)…map geared to habitat that they most enjoy… Bruce (VI): Placer is mostly in valley bottoms… Sara (Land Use): Map includes hard rock and placer… [missed this] Sara (Land Use): …wherever snowline is so varies year to year… Jim (Cariboo): 1300 meters? What is lowest area? Merv (Vernon): The subject of these critters came up in Okanagan-Shuswap land use plan…said to be nomadic… Norman (Land Use): They will travel and not necessarily go back to same places…difficult to say this is the place that is most important to them… Merv (Vernon): So if they go down valley, up side to ridge, then they would travel in areas of placer activities…so do these guidelines take this into consideration…their migratory path…? Norman (Land Use): Yes, some of it does…Primarily, it’s key habitats that have been identified… Placer (Vernon): So poor guy with his little (placer operation)… Norman (Land Use): No, technically the caribou might wander by, but (the) areas not moving around with caribou so areas of habitat not in areas identified with placer Randy (Atlin): …Y-to-Y program…will you have any … involvement in protecting that? Norman (Land Use): No…[missed this]…no, most of this is done…there are some new parks…there is no Y-to-Y program…it isn’t something that we would be factoring in… Randy (Atlin): I’m sure they do cover the Atlin area… Jim (Cariboo): What bothers me is that you’re not calling it a park…but 5 or 10 years down the road…Caribou River Park…said they would try to work with placer miners…now 15 years later, Parks came in and shut down placer miners…this worries me…change of government…change of rules…then they say absolutely no mining in there…[missed]…they want more areas… Norman (Land Use): We have ongoing dialog with NGOs…are we going as far as they would like with some of this stuff? …part of negotiation game… Jim (Cariboo): Ten years from now…How can we guarantee that? That’s what worries me… Norman (Land Use): …there are mechanisms for compensation for that…not a general approach…I don’t know the particulars of the Cariboo situations… Jim (Cariboo): Ten or 15 years down the road…that’s what worries me… Norman (Land Use): There is a cabinet decision which we are implementing… Merv (Vernon): …concern to mining sector, placer or mineral, keep adding layers of bureaucracy and people that are sitting at this table, many of them don’t have the expertise or the resources to deal with it…Ministry will say well you should know…it’s a concern to me and other people that you are creating a level of bureaucracy that [missed]…high unemployment and trying to expand land base also. Norman (Land Use): We’ve tried to create a most simple set of rules possible that create an exception through Notice of Work program in all but a very few instances (only those projects in the habitat zone)…less than 30 on an annual basis based on last year, one of our highest years ever…[missed]…We think there’s real win for efficiency… Merv (Vernon): …placer miners who don’t even know how to apply basic things…age bracket and all sorts of stuff…permits… Norman (Land Use): …no more permits… Bruce (VI): (Reference to Information Letter: reads relevant section)…it’s common sense…. Merv(Vernon): But, if you have to get a permit… Norman (Land Use): No more permits…inspector writes conditions into back of application… Merv (Vernon): As an endangered species, I’ve got a lot of sympathy for these caribou. Randy (Atlin): How many animals are we talking about? Sara (Land Use): …mountain caribou…just this area (under discussion)…1900… Butch: What I take away is if the number of tenures that it affects in mining industry and habitat is higher in mountains, then impact on placer mining is pretty small… Norman (Land Use): Existing roads, existing openings, not a problem …it’s when you go into new ground in identified caribou habitat zone, then inspector might want more review…but if the eleven conditions (are) followed, then inspector can say this project is a go… Butch: Do you have materials to send to your members? Bruce (VI): We have some copies… Norman (Land Use): AMEBC(?) made attempts last summer in talking to regional exploration mining groups. The folks that engaged with us the most were in the Kootenays…others we didn’t hear from very much…we’re hearing from more people… Cal (Vernon): Can we post it on mining website? Norman (Land Use): It’s a draft now… Butch: What I was getting at: If Bruce has an electronic copy, then you can send it out to your membership… Merv (Vernon): …covering memo… Sara (Land Use: [provides this] Norman (Land Use): …anticipate that by some time in April will have our part done; then, Ministry of Environment will create exception language in GAR Orders for mining activities that comply with…documents we have here provide fairly clear guidance…will be in Prince George and Quesnel next week, Wednesday and Thursday in the Kootenays…meeting with industry groups and meeting with staff from Energy and Mines…opportunity for questions and feedback…
Bruce (VI): Did Feds come up with direction?
Discussion of Minister’s Work Plan Going Forward Butch: If we need to leverage the ministry office, this is the place to do it…focus on things we can get done…write it down, this is what we’re trying to get out of it…(create) groups to work on it…Roads and Access issue keeps coming up…proposal to have whoever’s interested on your side (and) I will make some arrangements for folks that deal with roads…at this juncture Ministry of Forests…see what the rules are, see if we can go forward…don’t have the experts…let’s get a group together… Bruce (VI) [to Cariboo]: Can you forward facts about 7 kilometers…just so we have facts… Butch: I will look after logistics on governmentt side…identify someone on your side…set up your subcommittee…Bruce can let me know… Jim (Cariboo): Where will the meeting be? Butch: We’ll sort that out…maybe Victoria…we can be flexible…OK so there’s one thing we need to work…at this juncture, still more operational…
Minister’s Work Plan: Converting Claims to Lease (includes discussion of First Nations referral requirements) Butch: We have a list here of things we had talked about…Converting Claim to Lease…I’m going to put this out to your guys…I’m interested in your opinion as to what we should work on… Merv (Vernon): We need to identify people to work on it… Jim (Cariboo): Converting claims to lease…time frame…since meeting with Mr. Hogg…How’s that going Rick? Rick C: We have [missed] application stage…started to refer placer and mining leases to First Nations…before that (they) came back fast…no placer leases issued since last April…maybe one being close to issue now…refer to First Nations…most cases not getting response back… Jim (Cariboo): …30 days… Rick C: No…legal advice (is) that’s suicide… Jim (Cariboo): Sent out, then? Rick C: Send out. If no reply after 30 days, then again, then (follow-up) phone call… Butch: …[describes what might happen in court] (The question the court needs to answer is): Have you made a reasonable attempt to consult with First Nations? Have to let them know, then again, then phone call? Judge will not accept first letter…Lands and Case Law in courts. Rick C: …looking for different solution…e.g. Atlin area (I) sent letter to Band, then Randy went and met with them… Randy (Atlin):…the letter sent…took 26 days for letter that Rick had forwarded to arrive in Atlin…dealt with lands administrator…spoke with him…took what Butch had said at last meeting…Notice of Work…arrived at same time… Rick C: Randy spoke with First Nations… Randy (Atlin): …have areas of interest…they’re on land use map…archaeological site…explained where area was…he said didn’t see any problem…happened within a day…he spoke to Doug Flynn on one matter…as far as I know, they’re in the mail…back to Flynn and Ministry…happened quickly once it got going… Rick C: As soon as we get that information that file moves to top of pile… Randy (Atlin): …transboundary issues…the bands in area I see, some serious negotiations with one, the others forward-looking…the other thing…we offer employment… Rick C: If it can work with other files, then great… Randy (Atlin): We’ve got along with Tlingit…for years and years… Jim (Cariboo): Our area’s different… Randy (Atlin): …but government saying you have to make that effort…if you don’t then you’ll be hung out to dry… Merv (Vernon): Why didn’t you send a fax? Rick C: We need proof of delivery. Butch: We’re trying to get to electronic Notice of Work, then can send all that stuff electronically… Rick C: Lease issuance…idea to short circuit the process…this process worked for Randy… Randy (Atlin): It took a while…
Minister’s Work Plan: Notice to Land Owners Butch: Notice to Landowners…Is that something we’ll need help with? Rick C: …looking for exemption (re:) surface disturbance and non-fenced property…I think that could be handled with change to regulation…if that’s the case, open the act and rewrite the words… Bruce (VI): Bill Phelan write with a stroke of the pen… Rick C: …not Chief Gold Commissioner… Bruce (VI): …exemptions allowed by Gold Commissioner… Rick C: He can’t allow exemptions that contravene the spirit of the Act. Butch: If it has to go to reg change, (it’s a) good idea to put a group together…industry folks and ministry folks involved in this discussion…changes and why RickC: Yes… Butch: … Rick C: Could be called Mineral Tenure Act Amendment…e.g. fees, use of cash,… Butch: Put together a group to put together a proposal for change… Cal (Vernon): …title…association and clubs… Rick C: Are societies legally defined as partnership? If they are, then they can get FMC…forgot to check… Cal (Vernon): That takes that one off the table… Bruce (VI): The issue is to…train people how to get into industry…$500 corporate membership is prohibitive… Rick C: But, can have partnership of individuals and that’s $25… Bruce (VI): If we can do that, that would alleviate all the problem… Cal (Vernon): The Society is the partner… Bruce (VI): They have a collective name… Randy (Atlin): Is it important…who’s going to have control of property? Bruce (VI): It would be a partnership so it would be the association. Randy (Atlin): no staking recreational reserve Cal (Vernon): Tried to establish them, but limited by amount of ground available here…only way to do it is to take private individual…if his ground is available…but then that individual is responsible for what goes on. Bruce (VI): On the island, it’s on private property so we want control over what goes on it… Butch: Delegate to Cal? Bruce (VI): I’ll look after that one. Butch: Some of this we can do by conference call…
Minister’s Work Plan: Mineral Titles Review Rick C: There is a mineral titles review process…it’s dormant because it has become part of Minerals Mining Sector…last summer met with all but Nelson folks…talked about work levels, claim size reduction, subdivision…all the things that people have issues with…I was to prepare a document that talks about fees, issues about cash payments e.g. some people holding claims in province on a day-to-day basis, e.g. subdivision tool to lop off piece of claim to sell without putting (the entire claim) at risk to forfeit…if that’s a valuable tool we have to build regulations for that …Mining Review…e.g. changing production limits on claims…mineral tenure act recommendation…we’re identifying some other issues that might get locked into Minister’s counsel… Butch: Roles are…Rick and I and whatever we’ve been involved with will represent issues we’ve discussed to government…your role, whoever participates, is to take it to industry and present it as this is what we discussed with government…Rick, one of the things he’s talking about, we need to send it through Minister’s Counsel. Rick C: All of these things could be in place by September 1st…it’s not a big deal to change Mineral Tenure Act regulation if there’s political support to do it…
Minister’s Work Plan: Bonding and Reclamation Butch: Part of that was clarity at how bonds were arrived at…we can talk about that…
Minister’s Work Plan: Placer Claim Lands Designation Process Butch: Placer Claim Designation process…Was that about we have a restriction on areas open to placer? Merv (Vernon): We have many people who would like to get into the field and it would be beneficial to government coffers. Butch: I’m open to having this discussion and I’m willing to represent…Rick and I can work on it. Rick C: We haven’t changed the land open for placer since 2005… Bruce (VI): That’s the last time there was a change… Rick C: I’ve got two applications on Horsefly and a dozen around the province to have ground opened to placer… Butch: Some of the things it will take to move that along is to make an economic case to go along with it…we have to have some idea of what the scope would be…not likely to have tops of mountains…what might that look like…we need to address some of the concerns perceived out there…it’s doable… Bruce (VI): It’s just the acceptance of the fact of the bug kill devastating forestry…placer is one of ways of low dollar for unemployed… Butch: It’s about making the case…environmental, social…it’ll take some work Merv (Vernon): Who’s got formulas? If someone comes from Europe for a recreational holiday…it’s never factored into the equation… Rick C: I think that information is there in a general way…if 100 people [recreational] participated in placer…Stats knows how much they spend each… Jim (Cariboo): That’s something we could add to our museum in Likely…my wife’s president of the Chamber of Commerce…last year…1000 people…from all over the world at Quesnel Forks…all loved it…had a gas… Rick C: …one of things that would happen with a review, it would get referred to First Nations…I don’t think it’s a negative in this case…they might see tourist opportunities for themselves…if there’s something for them… Butch: How we deal with new areas…if there’s a proposal…referred out…the province has a Mine Development Review Committee (chaired by ?). If we had a broader scope, we might be able to look through chief inspector…that referral process…might be able to help… Bruce (VI): Go through MINFILE and look for placer areas that were overlooked. Identify other placer areas that were closed… Rick C: I would prefer to treat placer like mineral…the areas are closed [missed]… Randy (Atlin): Chris Kositsin…there’s ground set aside for placer since 1988, could stake claim, do test, but no lease…Lorne Kelly went to bat…said OK you can go in there, you can do the testing…[missed this]…We don’t want you building cabins in there? Rick C: …current mineral tenure act 1988…pushed DFO and Environment to open areas…swath central from Babine to Yukon border as placer claim lands…didn’t want to open up to massive-scale placer…draglines and scrapers…rationale…what happened is that Chief Gold Commissioner…was opened up as placer claim…approve as placer lease land….if satisfies, (then) that warrants a designation…nothing to do with cabins… Randy (Atlin): …land conservancies? Rick C: They’re a land designation created under Environmental Land Use Act…like a park… Randy (Atlin): We’re allowed to mine in those? Rick C: No…my understanding is that they’re off limits…The step from closed to placer claim land to placer lease is bureaucracy at its finest… Randy (Atlin): We’re currently paying for both…claims and lease…very expensive Rick C: That’s why we encourage people to convert…but that raises issue of production side of game…if placer associations can get together and say what they want in terms of production…. Jim (Caribou): We’ve got 2 months. Rick C: …election…If we get a different minister, we could be starting over again… Merv (Vernon): Oh boy…I’m not going to live that long…
Minister’s Work Plan: Converting Claims to Lease Ray (Omineca): If we convert from claims to leases we’re going to lose ground…we were going to 4-5 years ago but we would lose ground… Rick C: If you have your titles now converting placer claim to lease can’t result in lose of title. Don: Were you converting from legacy to cell claim first? Ray (Omineca): No, we changed our mind… Rick C: If you want to go from claim to lease, you can’t lose ground unless you voluntarily give up something… Ray (Omineca): In our area…so many different tribes where would we even start?...be like shooting a gun in the air…a waste of time…we need to expand… Rick C: If you have an expansion deadline coming down the road, you have to get the process going. Randy (Atlin): First Nations have to show serious concerns about it…they can’t do it just because they can…if you have that many people there you might as well start the process.. Rick C: You don’t want to let the process go until 6 months before your lease is up… Randy (Atlin): …in the Yukon the very quickest is 6 months…some a year and a half…I’ve heard rumours up to 2 years…if you have 14 bands…you have to jump through the hoops…the government has to expedite dealing with First Nations…someone has to …you have to act like self-government. Butch: (The) intent of the Act was to put that structure in place…senior government have heard you guys and us because we’re frustrated …there’s no certainty… Randy (Atlin): One has to come back to reality…the people who are really in charge…don’t understand a thing about mining…becomes more political Butch: Section 35 of the constitution says aboriginal rights are protected. What does that mean? Aside from Treaty 8 and ?, there are no treaties,…questions in courts of law: Can they demonstrate that they have occupied the area…that what’s the intent of that legislation… Butch: Case Law accepted oral history... Randy (Aatlin): … Butch: A lot of First Nations…are legends…
(COFFEE BREAK) [some discussion missing here]
Rick C: …similarly chief gold commissioner and inspector of mines has no authority in their territory…e.g. Forestry Act doesn’t apply… Randy (Atlin): [some missing]…e.g. moly mines shut down…Who is next? Placer…? Butch: Adanac and Tulsequa not First Nations (issues)… Randy (Atlin): …revenue sharing…we [reference to First Nations’ position] want government to come to our aid with revenue sharing, then it’s government to government Butch: We’ve always maintained that compensation is government to government; however, First Nations is [missing]…if you look at discussions Thompson Creek mining with Davidson project…it’s not as out-there… Randy (Atlin): Placer mining is not a public company… Merv (Vernon): Look how hard it is to get a royalty out of placer miners… Butch: What else have I missed? (…have identified) three issues: (1) group for roads and placer access through roads, (2) mineral tenure act or regulation amendments (notice to owners, fees and use of cash, production on claims), and (3) opportunities to open up new areas for placer mining… Merv (Vernon): May I comment? I know you’ve taken some good notes. Can we expect an expedient… Butch: I don’t have really good notes…but how about next Wednesday… Merv (Vernon): Sounds good to me.
Bruce (VI): Question on production on claims and cells…seeing that requirement to survey is now gone…to get around lease frustration would it not be easier to control production on the single tenure…have claim or cell and if you wanted production then bonding limited (to?) production; then you don’t have to go through second step with natives to bring your production up… Rick C: [missed this response…Sorry] Bruce (VI): (With a) surveyed boundary (you) knew where you were mining…if it was a cell structure GPS located, then that requirement is gone…there’s no reason ministry could not give increased production on claim Randy (Atlin): Why claim and lease? Rick C: Cariboo Mining Association raised a big ruckus about being treated differently than hard rock…before had two statues…so minister said: Fine…one set of rules for everywhere…on hard rock side…they want a lease because it’s a higher legal form of title… Randy (Atlin): You pay less. Rick C: There’s more security of tenure…one issue…and from other point, no automatic forfeiture…notice that you owe rent before forfeit…lease issued under current statute…If you forget to pay your rent, we’re required by law to give notice, then 38 days, then another 20 days… John (Atlin): Is that for LPN? Rick C: Yes…old ones issued under old statues…that’s why placer wanted same as hard rock…your point Bruce…we could control placer claims by bonding…but that’s …well it will remove First Nation side regarding placer…but we’re getting beat up severely because we don’t refer placer to First Nations…at highest level First Nations are (in)ferring that this is something wrong with BC. Butch: We’re saying that the simple act of raising a tenure…that doesn’t do anything…but they’re saying that by doing it…it leads to all the things…[missed] Rick C: The only reason, one of the big reasons why claims are referred to First Nation…no decision point…you log on, pay your money and get it… Bruce (VI): But going back to my question,…then to bring production levels by bonding would get our industry up and running quicker…it would get people on the ground working… Rick C: The 1000 cubic meters could easily be 10000 or 100000… Butch: It doesn’t make any difference to us…the bonds are commensurate with work being done… Rick C: [missed]…e.g. Manson Germansen area…messed with areas interlocking… Now more and more placer and mineral claims moved into cells, don’t have so much mess…time to look at production on it…problem is getting support to do it…
Other Items Butch: …move into this… (for) specifics, I will hang around after… Bruce (VI): Jim… Jim (Cariboo): It’s OK…I want to get specific… Butch: Yes, I’ll hang around for half an hour after…I just want to get clear on where they are organizationally…let me put this out there…I’ll talk about Prince George specifically, but in general, the time it takes to get a permit out the door, has gone up in the last three years…higher now than in 2001…currently, on average across everything…about 55 days to get a permit out the door…mineral and placer together…in 2004 about 35 days…we didn’t do First Nations…didn’t do referral…went very quickly…more recently has more to do with First Nations consultation and our requirement to do that…when you send out a referral and no answer in 30 days, follow up with phone call, etc…this is a bit of number magic…the more permits that offices deal with on a per-permit basis the faster they get them out… Jim (Cariboo): Last time you said 35 days… Butch: …we’re targeting 45 days…it’s not… Jim (Caribou): I know some waiting 120 days…you also told us to apply for multi-year permits… Butch: Not totally…don’t you think the operators who are doing a good job should have an advantage…
Jim (Cariboo): …security of tenure…when I file my assessment nothing comes back that says I got it…other than if you didn’t get it you would say you didn’t get it… Rick C: So, an acknowledgement… Randy (Atlin): …double register… Jim (Cariboo): Always send email. Rick C: On both placer and mineral, if there’s nothing wrong, we don’t do anything…can check into that…will put Jim’s picture on it…
Butch: …wrapping up…when do you want together again? In the meantime, get three groups together…even on a phone call… What are you trying to achieve? Performance measure… What action are you going to do to get there? Who is the lead? Who is doing what? Where are you at?
COMMITTEES: Two-Zones Placer Claim Lands Designation: Jim (Cariboo), Rick, Butch
Please send a copy of these minutes to following emails: Rick Conte, Executive Director, Mineral Titles Branch rick.conte@gov.bc.ca Cal Olsson, Vernon Placer Mining Association cal-ole@shaw.ca Merv Lewis, Vernon Placer Miners’ Association mervlewis@shaw.ca Jim Gibson, President, Cariboo Miners Association littlelakehouse@yahoo.com Bruce Chaytor, President, BC Placer Miners Association bchaytor@shaw.ca Les Sleeva, Observer, Cariboo District lsleeva@telus.net Don Smith, Mineral Titles Branch Don.Smith@gov.bc.ca Linda Caron, President, Boundary Mining Association l.caron@telus.net
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